Wednesday, August 27, 2014

Where Should I Be in Wormhole Space?

I had an interesting question from a reader that he EVE-mailed me.  (This was just before Hyperion; I am writing this just after.)  With his permission, I am posting it here and  because I think that there may be a lot of people living out in kspace who are thinking about wspace, but don't know what level would be most suitable.

[UPDATE: After playing two days of Hyperion, I am not so sure C4 is the place for, well, most of the people who are currently there.  C4 space used to be isolated in feel, and distant.  Now it is the middle of a superhighway.  Very hard to zip up to make ISK.  So, take this whole post as a EVE-up-through Crius commentary.  I'll have more to day about this presently I am sure.]
We want to move from where we are... into a Wormhole...  I thought (and hoped) you could answer some of my questions. 
This is us:
  • In our primetime we can field about 6-12 people, most of which have alts that they can put on different things. 
  • There are times when we only have 1-3 members on at the same time.
  • We will not be starting out with capitals, but it is something that we might be doing in the future.
When you look at that, do you think a C4 wormhole with a C3 or C4 static is a good choice?  Ideally we want things to do for all our members when they log on (what is the point if there isn't).  Do you reckon 1-2 people can run some sites in a C3 and a 10 man fleet won't be overkill for C4 sites? 
Of course we will be waiting for Hyperion to find ourselves a good WH (with the static changes to a C4 coming).
My response, expanded and modified:

You absolutely do not need capitals in C1-C4.  Many corporations in lower wspace eventually build a carrier for site running, because you get a logi and damage dealer in one character. This is efficient. Some people also build a dread for local defense, but it is only for that.  Note that it is impossible to bring any capital into C1-C4.  To have one there, you must build it there.  And then you cannot get it out; it is "system locked".  You may be able to sell it with the system, but do not expect to sell it easily.

In terms of what level of wspace to be in, I would suggest you'd do best in a C2 or a C4.  C1s are very poorly connected to the rest of wspace; C3s are somewhat poorly connected.  C5 and C6 are the domain of capitals and they are pretty much required there.  So let's look at C2 and C4 briefly.

C2s have dual statics, one to known space and one to wspace.  They come in C2/C4+hs, C2/C3+hs, C2/C5+ns, and C2/C2+ls.  There are also those with C1 and C6 statics; I am not sure what their second static is.  In any case, you could handle any of these.  Because C2s have a static into kspace, they always have one-hop access to known space.  This is handy for manufacturing (esp. highsec), PVP (lowsec), or some PVP and PVE (nullsec).  One downside of C2s is that people like them a lot, and so there are very few of them uninhabited, especially those with highsec statics.  You don't get a great amount of choice.

C4s, now that Hyperion is out, resemble C2s somewhat.  They do not have direct kspace access, but if you choose one with a static of C1, C2, or C3, you can get guaranteed access to a system with direct access.  Running logistics up a chain of one extra hop is slightly harder, but should not challenge a corp with more than two members.  The main problem in finding a way out is simply the scanning.  I kind of like scanning, but not everyone does.  If you live deep in wspace, you need to do a lot of scanning.

The main downside of C4s is logistics, although that is going to ease for most of them with Hyperion.  Sometimes you just cannot find a way out, at least not without hole-rolling.  One new downside is the dual static: it makes it considerably harder to zip up your system.   However, if you have dual statics both in C1-C4, then they should not be too hard to keep synchronized much of the time, with known times when they are both closed.  Just be sure to always instantiate them at the same time.

Your corp can handle either a C3 or C4 static, no problem.

One character can run a C3 site in a Tengu. I have done it, though I don't recommend it due to operational security. Still, two people (using perhaps four characters) should be fine.

I am in C4 with C4 static. (As of Hyperion, it is now C4/C4+C5.)  Our primary source of income is running C4 sites in battleships.  Two characters can do it: one logi, one battleship damage-dealer.  A dual T3 spider setup can also handle some of the sites.  However, that is rather inefficient.  It is better to have at least, say, four characters, perhaps two or three real people.  A single character can run C4 sites if in a Marauder (or a carrier); otherwise, not.  This is also not very efficient.  It helps to have a good fleet-booster.

We run C4 sites typically with 2-5 real people, which is 5-10 characters. 10 characters is not overkill here, although the sites go pretty fast.  Doing sites fast is not a problem when there are many, and often there are many.  In a C4/C4, you can use your 10 guys to roll wormholes to find more sites at need.

A gang of 12 people is enough to PVP fairly comfortably with many or most groups you will run into. So, don't be afraid to try that once you get your income going. What I like to do is cloaked hunting, which is fine solo, although having a few others to come with ship-killers can make it better. I assume you read Penny's blog, so you know what I am talking about.

As for "stuff to do" beyond PVP and sleeper PVE, it depends on what your guys like to do.  You can often mine gas and/or rocks in wspace if you like mining.  You can do industry.  A larger group can usually roll a wormhole to find something to do.  In smaller groups, this is less true.  My guys focus on different stuff, but we all have stuff we can usually do. I.e., several of us do exploration in nullsec or lowsec if nothing interesting is in wspace.  Of course we don't always get a good connection; sometimes is it rather boring.  It helps to have a highsec alt that you keep around for playing when wspace is not helpful.  (Or an alt in lowsec, nullsec, FW, red-vs-blue, etc. -- whatever makes you happy.)

I would suggest you go for a C4.   I think you'd be happiest in a C4/C3+C4, assuming that these exist.  (I don't know as yet what sort of dual combos there actually are, beyond that I know C4/C4+C5 and C4/C3+C2 exist.)  Do be aware that C4s have changed in character.  They used to be a sort of quiet backwater of wspace; with their new dual static I think they are about to get a lot more occupancy and traffic.  I expect many C4 systems to become homes of PVP oriented corps, sort of like C2s are now.

C4s currently are not well populated, so finding one should be pretty easy.  Go into wspace in a covert ops frig, and search.  I find abandoned C4s almost every day.  One particular opportunity right now is to get into a Black Hole. Before Hyperion, these were almost entirely abandoned because their PVE was so awful. It's about to get very good, if you use missiles.

5 comments:

  1. I am solo (main+alt) WH dweller living in C4/C3, now in Hyperion it has C4/C3+C4.

    I do run C4 sites solo with Tengu, you do not need battleship or carrier for this. Frontier Barracks and Frontier Command Post both take about ~35mins to clear with single Tengu, so 100M ISK/h is achievable.

    For Frontier Command Post I use HAM fit:

    [Tengu, C4 Frontier Command Post ]
    Capacitor Flux Coil II
    Ballistic Control System II
    Ballistic Control System II
    Ballistic Control System II
    Ballistic Control System II

    10MN Afterburner II
    Pith C-Type Large Shield Booster
    EM Ward Field II
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
    Shield Boost Amplifier II

    Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
    Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
    Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
    Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
    Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile

    Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
    Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
    Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

    Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
    Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
    Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
    Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
    Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix

    I typically swap afterburner for target painter for first two waves, but you need AB for third wave to get into range. Also on initial warp in warp to 100, then warp to sleeper conduct, else it is hard to get to sentry gun range. I use caldari navy's and rage's, and keep some javelins too around.

    If you feel a bit thin with tank, swap it to Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster - currently trades only 10M higher than C-Type.

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    Replies
    1. This is a good fit. Thanks. I might also suggest that someone start out replacing a Ballistic Control System II with a Damage Control II. This gets substantially more tank at the cost of a smallish amount of gank.

      I am kind of surprised that you can do sites solo in this, because of the nossing. But I guess you can usually warp out if it gets bad.

      Personally, I don't like having to move around when I run sites. I like being able to just park it. This gives me more time to focus on strobing the discovery scanner. But then I am paranoid about being jumped.

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    2. Frontier Command Post has only frigates neuting, so fit above works there well.

      Frontier Barracks is different matter - three battleships neut in second wave 10Gj each out to 70km. With above fit with HML-s instead of HAM-s one can kite outside 70km range. The fit below if Genolutions CA-1 and CA-2 are plugged in it has about +27 extra gap regen - this is enough to take down one battleship in second wave without gap issues. In addition most of battleship damage is avoided with 100mn afterburner speed-tank, so shield booster can be occasionally pulsed, which gives a lot of excessive gap and neuting is not an issue at all.

      But you are right, these fits require active chasing after sleepers in space. I do not have skills for marauder, so I cant' compare.

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    3. I can't fly a marauder either (nor a carrier). When I talk about parking it, "it" is a fleet of Ravens with a logi support. The Ravens are close to what I was using back in this post. I suppose I should revisit it.

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  2. (continued)

    For Frontier Barracts there are two options:
    * similar fit with with HML - kite neuting battleships ~73km range (I use caldari heavies, rage's are bit short); or
    * use 100MN HAM fit with medium shield booster and speed tank battleships. you have enough cap regen to almost handle the second wave neut all modules running -- so clear one BS first in second wave and once you are close to BS-s you only need to pulse the booster occasionally. Set 15km orbit to battleship, it maintains 20km @1000km/h.

    I personally like the HAM variant, it is more engaging. You need implant to fit it, I just typically have genolution CA-1 and CA-2 plugged anyway, then it fits nicely.

    [Tengu, C4 Frontier Barracs]
    Power Diagnostic System II
    Power Diagnostic System II
    Ballistic Control System II
    Ballistic Control System II
    Ballistic Control System II

    Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
    Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
    EM Ward Field II
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
    Shield Boost Amplifier II

    Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
    Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
    Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
    Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
    Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile

    Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
    Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
    Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

    Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
    Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
    Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
    Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
    Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix

    I have quite few sites spawning in my home C4 recently, but with Hyperion I have second static to another C4, which is nice. On patch day it happened to be black hole, which made running Frontier Command Post with Tengu very nice: many frigates/cruisers, missile explosion velocity helps a lot combined with target-painter; longer range for hams, so javelins reached to 61km, made third wave easier to deal.

    With C3 static I can get to k-space, but most of the time it is low-sec exit, so logistics is somewhat complicated.

    http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/2014/08/c4-wormholespace-dual-statics.html blog has initial list of C4 combinations.

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